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A note from Matthew Carey (host of Studio Time) —
I've spent a lifetime helping creative colleagues make art they can be proud of. Now I want to take that a step further and help them make careers they can be proud of.
I learned a repeatable method to create an Audience by Design and I'm on a mission to share that with others. I’ve created a workshop for artists and creatives who have spent forever perfecting 'the show' and are now ready to get serious about the business.
My vision is to create a community of artists with careers that sustain them creatively, emotionally, and financially.
This 6-week workshop will help you build a loyal audience who wants to support and engage with the work that's meaningful to you. I believe it will fundamentally change your relationship with your fans and transform how you feel about your career.
My guest on this episode, Gina Morgano, is a radical romantic who believes in using her voice as an instrument of peace.
Gina teaches how to find your voice - both the external voice that has something it wants to sing and the internal voice which has something that it's longing to say.
In this episode you'll hear some of Gina's story - how she came to be a performer and singing teacher with a love of learning and sharing other people's stories.
Find and follow Gina online:
Links and show notes from the episode:
The Practice Society is a new collective of curious, dedicated and service-oriented artists ready to dive deep into cultivating purposeful practices in art and life. Through community and conversation, this introductory summer membership explores the pillars of Identity, Wellness and Growth. Artist citizens will receive the tools and accountability to build and support the lifestyle and creative practices that will sustain them for the long-haul, helping them to claim agency over their creativity and make meaningful contributions through their humanity and artistry.
Be a Curator: Gina's blog post about creation and curation
Your $5K Hour: Why some people pay £385+ to see Beyonce
Episode transcript:
Matthew Carey
Hi Gina, and welcome to Studio Time.
Gina Morgano
Thank you, Matthew. Thanks for having me.
Matthew Carey
It's great to be talking with you. For those people that are listening and who haven't met you or don't know of you yet — could you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Gina Morgano
Absolutely. I am a singer and a voice teacher. My work is about helping people to find their voices both inside and out. I do that through singing, I teach at a public Performing Arts High School in Manhattan. I have private voice students as well, and of course, I love performing.
Matthew Carey
Great. As a voice trainer, what does voice training mean to you?
Gina Morgano
That's such a great question.
I think there are two answers. The first is the technical side of training your physical instrument, as a singer, as a speaker, and how to maximize your voice so that you can produce the sounds that you want to. That is all, of course, in service of your message, the story that you're telling whether you're speaking or you're singing in a show. Beyond that, it's also about training your inner voice, and tuning into your inner voice, and training yourself to bring that inner voice forward to express your creativity, to express your identity, to learn to communicate your values and what matters to you.
Matthew Carey
Bringing your inner voice forward and expressing the creativity in your identity and your values — is that something that people generally come to you for? Or do they come to you for the more technical side and you slip the more internal stuff in along the way?
Gina Morgano
Absolutely. I would say it's the latter. Most people come to me wanting to learn how to sing better. So much of our work is about illuminating the voice that's already there. It's about stripping away the noise, stripping away things that may be daily habits that aren't serving them, and teaching them to have confidence in what is already inside.
Matthew Carey
As I speak with you and listen to you. I love the sound of your voice. You speak so clearly and it makes me a little bit nervous about my insecurities. Listening back to your own podcast can be a nightmare sometimes. Were you always well-spoken and well sung? How did that come about for you, Gina?
Gina Morgano
Thank you for the compliment. I always loved the arts. I played instruments before I sang seriously. But I always sang in the school choir and public speaking never bothered me, it wasn't something that gave me nerves or dread. So part of it came naturally, but so much of it has also been cultivated through years of training. Years of voice training, but also through years of becoming more aware of what matters to me, what I have to offer, and therefore being able to express that with a bit more ease,
Matthew Carey
Your voice training spans a lot of genres of music or a lot of musical styles. Is that something that you were always conscious of? Or did your voice training start in a certain place, and then you decided, Oh, I'd like to try this as well. Or I'd like to try that as well.
Gina Morgano
I was always very conscious of it. When I was around four years old, I started taking piano lessons and my piano teacher trained me classically. However, her father was a professional jazz pianist. She had an appreciation for different musical styles and I was always supported in my exploration and interest in different musical styles. As I started to sing seriously, I knew that I wanted to be classically trained so that I could have that strong technical foundation. But I always loved musical theatre, and other styles as well. As I've grown, I have worked hard to cultivate both classical voice and musical theatre styles of singing, and then also to learn how to belt, sing a little jazz, or sing a little pop. There are certain styles that I'm more comfortable in than others, but it's been really important to me to continue stretching my voice and learning how to do new things.
Matthew Carey
You trained in San Francisco at the Conservatory there, I believe. You can tell me a little bit more about that. Now you live on the east coast in New York, or you're normally in New York. When I think about the two coasts in hip hop, there's a very different style on the West Coast versus the East Coast. Does that show up in other musical styles as well? Do classical singers or music theatre singers have slightly different approaches on the east side to the west side?
Gina Morgano
Oh, that's a great question and one I have not thought about before. On the west coast, particularly in San Francisco, there is a thriving early music scene. Baroque music, singing with period instruments was something that I got to explore while I was out there and I loved it. That's not to say it doesn't exist in New York. Of course, it does, but not quite to that extent, or that concentration of musicians who are interested in that. New music is very popular in San Francisco. There are a lot of smaller professional opera companies functioning at a very high level and are commissioning new works. As far as musical theatre, of course, Broadway is in New York, the home of commercial theatre, and so many nonprofit companies as well. San Francisco has a lot of smaller regional companies. I never was involved in the regional theatre scene, I was more focused on being a student while I was out there. So I can't speak specifically, but it was mostly more traditional productions. I don't know if that's changed since I've been there.
Matthew Carey
Do you feel like there's a different approach to being a musician or an actor or an artist on the West Coast than there is on the East Coast? Is there a different pace of life? Is there a different mindset?
Gina Morgano
The pace of life is very different. When I first moved to San Francisco, I could not get over how slowly people walked. I had to adjust myself to that pace of life and to tell myself that it was okay to take my time getting from point A to point B. That's something that I wish I had carried over when I moved to New York. I wish that I had not fallen into the trap of walking so quickly. But in New York, there is this sense of urgency. Part of it may also just have to do with the number of people that are there. It's very fast and quick-paced. But in California, there's a calmness. There is a sense of awe. New York has a sense of awe with the lights and the skyscrapers, but in San Francisco, it's more a quiet beauty. You are out in nature more. You are taking time to soak up what is around you. And because there's less of it, you can do that. In New York, I think sometimes you have to pick and choose because there's so much.
Matthew Carey
Was the idea of exploring your inner voice something that you were already thinking about when you were a student? When did that become something that you focused on?
Gina Morgano
I started focusing on it consciously once I moved to New York. I, in some ways, became lost through my studies and in my collegiate and graduate training. I loved what I did. But my sense of why I was doing it got a bit lost in the hustle and bustle of trying to be the best artist that I could be. Once I moved to New York, I started working with people who were talking about art in terms of values and expressing who you are inside not only your skillset. That changed my outlook. It brought me a lot of peace to be able to tap into what I have to offer without being reliant on getting a job for my self-esteem.
Matthew Carey
Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Gina Morgano
Sure. There is a very dangerous trap that artists can fall into, that they're always chasing the next gig. Chasing validation from other people and approval from other people to say that they're good enough. To say that they're worthy, to say that they have something to offer. Once I realized that we have more power and control. That we can control our narrative as an artist and share the stories that we want to share, that opened up a whole world of possibility to me. My value as an artist, my value as a person, didn't depend on booking X job from Y audition. I could create the projects that I wanted to create. I could work with the people that I wanted to work with. I could say yes and no to things based on their alignment with my values, as opposed to because that was the shiny object out there that I just had to get.
Matthew Carey
Gina, did you grew up in the New York area?
Gina Morgano
No, I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. That's where I am now. I'm riding out this pandemic here with my family.
Matthew Carey
Yes, you decided to move back to the East Coast after you finished your training in San Francisco. Was that back to your hometown to start with, or did you go straight to New York? What was your goal or thinking behind the move?
Gina Morgano
When I went to college at Northwestern, which is outside of Chicago, most of my friends moved to New York right after school. I knew that I wanted to go to Graduate School first, but New York was always in the back of my mind. I moved to California intending to move to New York afterwards. I did spend a summer at home in Pittsburgh in between (as some transition time) but I always knew that New York was the dream.
Matthew Carey
I know you have some training in journalism as well. How did that come about for you?
Gina Morgano
When I was applying to undergraduate programs, Northwestern had a short-lived Music and Journalism program. I applied as an incoming freshman. The program was designed so that you got your Bachelor's in Music and your Masters in Journalism. It was a five-year program. I believe it was meant for people who wanted to go into arts criticism. I was just interested separately in performing music and in learning about journalism. So I finished out the program. It was eye-opening and fascinating to learn about this whole other world of storytelling.
Matthew Carey
How does the world of being a storyteller as a journalist and the world of being a storyteller as a singer — how do those worlds meet up, and how are they different? What did you learn?
Gina Morgano
They are similar in that both fields are about walking in somebody else's shoes. They are both fields of empathy, of learning and sharing other people's stories, and finding the common humanity in them. I believe strongly that journalism helped me and fed into my love of research. I'm very interested in dramaturgy and musicology. I do a lot of research with all of the roles and songs and programs that I work on. Journalism helped me learn how to do good research, deep research. I'm very grateful for that. It also taught me how to ask questions. I believe that your work as an artist comes down to the quality of your questions.
Matthew Carey
Well, that's a good segue because I was imagining that some journalism training plays in well to your work as a podcaster. I've had the pleasure of being a guest on your podcast, The Practice Parlor. You do ask very good questions. Does the journalism training help there? Was that part of your thinking behind the podcast? Or was that almost a separate idea?
Gina Morgano
It started as a separate idea. However, in hindsight, I know that it has helped. It has made it a bit easier. There was a latent skillset in me, that I hadn't had the opportunity to use. Now I'm grateful for the opportunity.
Matthew Carey
Sometimes it's easy to connect the dots going backwards. I started Studio Time, not thinking about these things, but after I'd been doing it for a while, I remembered volunteering at a community radio station back in my early 20s. A friend was an announcer there and I used to go and join him on Saturday mornings and we'd do segments. Further back when I was in primary school, some friends and I used to present a short school radio show over the PA system for five minutes on Fridays at lunchtime. Now that I connect the dots backwards, there was a bit of broadcasting in me for decades and now it's all come together. So it's interesting how those things happen. Tell me about asking better questions, as an artist.
Gina Morgano
You also asked about how journalism and being an artist are different. Something in connecting the dots backwards that has become apparent to me, is that in journalism (true news story journalism, not opinion or editorial), one tries to take themselves out of it. You try to get to the truth without inserting bias or opinion. Of course, you can see threads through a journalist's work of what they're interested in, but it is not about the journalist. It's about the work. The same can be said for the arts. What I noticed in myself, is that when I'm asked to have a point of view now, sometimes that's difficult for me — because I'm open to the questions, I'm open to the possibilities. I want to see the different viewpoints, yet being asked to draw a conclusion is more challenging. Being asked to assert my own opinion is more challenging. So when it comes to asking questions of other people, it's about keeping it open-ended, it's about not having an answer in mind. It's about truly being curious and open to wherever that conversation may go.
Matthew Carey
I'm connecting dots in my head about things that I've learned about you, so this is very interesting. While we're on the topic of podcasting, and interviewing: as somebody that's recorded a lot of episodes of your show, and has some training in journalism, is there a specific approach that you like to take to your questions as a podcaster? Do you have a list of questions that you often come back to, an actual template of questions? Or do you like to improvise?
Gina Morgano
The answer is both. I do have a template of topics that I like to touch on in every episode. We may not get to all of them. In general, I like to start by having the guests share their story. I like to end with a couple of parlour games. I want to make sure that we touch on practices in that person's field or area of expertise. So they're not questions per se, but they are general topics of conversation. Then I let it go from there. Every episode has a theme or a topic based on who the guest is, what they are passionate about and what they're skilled in. I like to guide the questions, touching on that area specifically, but the conversation is very free-flowing within that.
Matthew Carey
You mentioned that part of sharing your voice and that inside voice was about your values. What would you say your main values are?
Gina Morgano
I've thought a lot about this. I can give you the actual answer. I have my values all written out, so I'll share those with you. They are to ignite hope, to seek authenticity, to foster a spirit of growth and to trust my intuition. Beyond that, I will say inclusion is very, very important to me. That goes with seeking authenticity because I believe in tapping into what is good and special in each person and honouring that. I believe in community, connection, and collaboration. I believe in highlighting the good instead of the bad. Those are a few.
Matthew Carey
How does being in touch with your values help or inform how you show up day to day?
Gina Morgano
It's everything, I think. It is a framework for making decisions. It is a framework for deciding how to show up if I am questioning "Is this the right thing to do? Do I want to post that? Do I want to practice today?" Anything that I'm considering? I can ask myself is this in alignment with those values? If it's not, then there is something better than it could be spending my time on or a different way to approach something.
Matthew Carey
There are various ways to establish what your values are. But I think there's the risk that you can go through a process and do all your journaling, or whatever sort of working out you need to do to come up with them, write them down on a piece of paper, then the next day you turn the page to start on something else. The values become something that you just did one day, and they're not necessarily something that you're putting into action or making active. I wonder if you've got an example of how you might take one or more of your values and put them into action.
Gina Morgano
I love that question. I'm going to go with the first one 'to ignite hope.' And this is something I've been thinking a lot about, as far as what I post on social media. Sometimes I question, "Do I say enough about certain things? Should I post this? Should I post that?" Sometimes I'll see things that other people post that sort of rub me the wrong way and I don't know why, because I agree with what they're posting.
I realize that for me, I only want to post things that are uplifting and full of possibility. If it is something that is going to be triggering or meant to incite anger or negative emotion — even if I agree with the sentiment of it — that's not something that I want to put out in the world. Another thing is trusting my intuition. I think it's important to say that just because something is one of your values, doesn't mean that it's easy to do. Trusting my intuition is the most challenging of my values. The journalist in me wants to hear other people's stories, wants to leave my opinion out of it and find the different possibilities. Trusting my intuition often requires that I go with my instinct, go with my impulse, make a decision, say what comes to mind, to speak up. That can be hard. So having that value at the forefront of my mind is just a reminder. When I find myself doubting, when I find myself questioning if I should say anything — should I ask the question even — knowing that I value trusting my intuition helps me to have the courage to do that.
Matthew Carey
Gina, does your experience now with the Practice Parlour Podcast help give you more confidence about sharing your voice, asking questions and speaking up?
Gina Morgano
Thank you for asking that. Yes, and no. It has illuminated how much I don't speak up. It has made me very aware of how much I prefer to listen. And it has challenged me to speak up.
Matthew Carey
I like that observation and awareness. When you and I talked recently on your podcast, one of the things we talked about for a little while was social media. Just now you were telling me about how you use that value of wanting to ignite hope when you're considering what you might post on social media. I wonder whether the other values are things that you could use as themes on your social media? Trusting your intuition could be something you could share or it could be a directive to yourself, about how you approach social media. Can you remind me of the other values? Would they work as themes in your social media feed?
Gina Morgano
Oh, I love that idea 'to seek authenticity' and 'to foster a spirit of growth'. Those are my other two. I love what you're saying because I have a love-hate relationship with social media. It is not something that I feel particularly skilled at or something that I particularly enjoy. Sometimes it feels very obligatory to me. Yet I appreciate it and I think it can do a lot of good. So I love that idea. Absolutely. Also, it can be a platform to encourage other people to share their stories. Although I need to gain more courage in sharing my own I think at the same time.
Matthew Carey
This micro theme we discovering here today, which is great. If we use our values as themes for our social media feed, then it almost gives us permission and a way to step away from making our posts about us, trying to say something about us, or prove something about us. Instead, we can make them about something that's a little bit more — it can be personal — but it's still universal. If you've got those four values that you believe in, then you have already decided that those things are worthy of sharing. You don't have to ask yourself over and over again "is there any point in me sharing this?" because you've decided that these themes are things that are important to you, and things that you want to bring out of yourself and give to the world. It's something that I'm going to explore as well. Thank you for that. Gina, is there anything that's been on your mind this week that you'd like to speak up about?
Gina Morgano
Oh, thank you for asking that. Everything does not appear on social media, since we're on the subject of social media. I am learning how to use that in a more meaningful way. I also think that it's important to remind everybody that what they do in their daily lives, and how they interact with the people around them, and how they use their voices, to the people that are right in front of them, or that they're on the phone with or that they're emailing — that's what's most important. It starts at home. Speak up for what you believe in. Listen to the stories of the people around you, and open your mind and your heart to stories that you might not be aware of, or that you might not know enough about. That is where it begins, and then you can take action from there.
Matthew Carey
Thank you for sharing that. You talked about San Francisco having a very strong early music scene. It's in the name of your podcast, and you mention on your website that you wish we could bring back parlour concerts. I know that cabaret is something also that's interesting to you and that you've been a part of. I wonder whether there is a connection between the idea of the parlour concerts historically, and what we now know, is cabaret today.
Gina Morgano
Oh, I love that question. Well, I haven't done the research so now I'm curious and I want to research and find out what the direct lineage might be. But there is this common sense of intimacy. If we think of parlour concerts, they were living room concerts. People would have instruments in their home. They would have parties and they would share music socially. They often were not so formal. Sometimes they would be a little bit more formal but oftentimes, it was simply people sharing music at home. When we think of cabaret — the most important element of cabaret, I believe, is the conversation aspect. It's a conversation with the audience. There is no fourth wall. It is a dialogue between performer and audience and that sense of intimacy is so prevalent, and really at the heart of it.
Matthew Carey
I'm a big fan of cabaret as well. If I go back to the idea of the parlour room concerts — sharing music in your living room or inviting people into your living room so you can share music with them, or so they can play music for you — it's almost what we've been doing for the last 12 or 18 months, isn't it? Zoom is like one big parlour room concert in a sense. With virtual performances, we're inviting people into our living rooms as we're having these conversations and performances.
Gina Morgano
Yes, absolutely. I've had the privilege to do a few virtual concerts over the past year and it's true. I filmed them in my living room and had the camera set up. It was so nice because even though I missed the energy of being in person, and that exchange of breath, of being in the same room, the ability to have zoom meant that the audience could chat, they could ask questions, they could interact in a way that they don't actually in in-person concerts. That's interesting and something that I didn't think about until now. I'm wondering how we might carry an element of that into the future.
Matthew Carey
There are at least two zoom or video call styles. There's the style where everybody in the room is on their camera and you can see them engaging with what's happening. Then there's the style that I see, which tends to be more work-related, where people keep the camera off as much as possible so that maybe they don't get called on or so they can do whatever they need to do in the background. Certainly, when we're in one of those 'camera on' rooms, you get to see the audience. The audience gets to be seen a lot more than what they do at a regular performance when the lights go down and they're in the darkness. That's an interesting experience for the performer or whoever's leading that performance. It's interesting for the audience as well, because being seen is important. A while back, I wrote a post about this on my blog, The Infinite Creative. Why do some people pay so much to go to a Beyonce concert? I will get the numbers wrong, but when Beyonce was playing Wembley Stadium in London a few years ago, there were some tickets for 40 pounds and the top price tickets were 300 pounds. No matter what you've paid for your ticket, you are seeing the same performance, a performance you can later watch on your TV at home. So what is it that makes people want to spend money to come to the room? If you're paying 40 pounds, you want to be in the room, where everybody else is and share the experience. I think there are a few reasons why some people pay to be up in the front few rows. I think there's the story that they tell themselves that they're such a big fan of Beyonce, that it makes sense for them to shell out the cash to be in the front rows. I think for some people, it's about status. "I'm the sort of person that's always up the front because I've got the cash, I've got the influence to be at the front." But I've got a feeling that for most of the people that pay 300 pounds to see Beyonce in a concert, where they could see it just as, if not more clearly, by sitting in 10 rows back and watching the massive video screens — it isn't because they want to see Beyonce better, but they want for Beyonce to have a chance to see them.
Gina Morgano
That is so fascinating. I think you're onto something, and I believe the flip side is true. Right now is showing us that flip side. When we talk about being able to turn your camera off on zoom, I notice so many of my students go through class with their camera off. There's an element of zoom that allows you to hide. That allows you to not be seen. Sometimes we just need a break, right? We're on camera on our computers all day and sometimes we want to be able to stretch and not have to sit there perfectly still and attentive. However, I think that the past year has been so disconnected and so isolating that there's a trap in allowing yourself to go into that hiding mode, where you are not opening yourself up to be seen because being seen is being vulnerable. And being seen is opening yourself up to other people's judgments and opinions of you. As we move forward into a more in-person world, I think it's really important that people allow themselves to be seen.
Matthew Carey
That's almost a question I can ask myself when I get up in the morning or when I step out of the house. Am I going to be in 'camera on' mode today or 'camera off' mode? We touched on the idea of cabaret. You've got some experience self-producing benefit concerts and cabaret. How did that come about and what's it like for you to be a producer?
Gina Morgano
As a classical singer, part of our degree program was to put on recitals. That came very naturally. It was something that was mandatory to do and that I had a lot of practice in doing and wasn't particularly difficult for me to do. My mom growing up was a corporate event planner and so my recitals would always be a little fancier than the norm. I might have a nice reception spread, some flowers and things like that. So something that came naturally. Then later I was living in New York, I wasn't booking a lot of work, and I was missing performing. I saw all these cabarets happening around me and I thought, "Wouldn't it be really fun to put on a cabaret?" My voice teacher, thank goodness, gave me the best advice — which was to book a date and figure out the show later. So I did my first cabaret. I realized in doing that, was the same thing as doing a classical recital. It was just a different repertoire. I found more freedom doing cabaret than in the standard way of doing a recital, where you don't interact with the audience but I didn't feel like the leap was so far.
I realized how much I loved it and how much I missed that recital/cabaret format. So I started doing more of them and then I started doing them for charity work. The first one I did was for my hometown church. The church is called Our Lady of Victory. It's a Catholic Church and has a statue of the Blessed Mother. During World War Two, the church said that if all of the boys came back alive, they would rename the church, 'Our Lady of Victory'. So there's a statue with all of the veterans' names in it. That statue needed updating. It was from World War Two and some of the names were hard to read. So I did a Christmas concert and we raised money to restore the statue. That was so fun and it gave me a sense of purpose for my art that was detached from booking a job. It felt like I was being of service, I was doing what I was meant to be doing. I had just as much fun and I got just as much joy from any other type of show that I had done and it was for good cause. So then I started doing some other things as well. It went from a smaller one-woman show to at one point being a very large benefit concert. It's all the same thing, just different degrees of scale.
Matthew Carey
That's interesting. I love hearing what you said about the idea of making it about a bigger purpose or a purpose outside of yourself. I think that's important. Maybe more so than here in Australia, but in America, we certainly see lots of high profile benefits. Benefit galas and benefit dinners. Have you ever created entertainment for somebody else's benefit? Or are they usually projects that you've maintained the whole production of?
Gina Morgano
I've done both. I have been hired to create the music for somebody else's benefit around their theme. They were hosting the party and they needed the entertainment. I was on the planning committee for a project for Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Westchester. That was a very large scale benefit. I did not produce it, but I was on the planning committee and I did perform on it. So I've done both.
Matthew Carey
And tell me about your cabaret performances. Do you bring your broad range of musical styles to the cabaret performances? Or do you tend to focus on one style at a time?
Gina Morgano
I generally have made my cabarets mostly musical theatre and/or American Songbook jazz, with a little pop thrown in there. I have not mixed classical singing with the more popular styles. Although now that you mentioned it, I'm wondering why I have not. And now I think I need to do that.
Matthew Carey
We tend to think of a certain range of musical styles when it comes to cabaret performances. I guess there is some element of audience expectation to take into account. If you're not bringing all of your audience with you to the show and you're hoping that some people would discover it from the general public and come, then you want to manage their expectations. If they come thinking they're going to see jazz or music theatre songs and they get a night of early music, it might be a surprise they're not ready for. But I love the idea of combining them somehow. Combining art song and musical theatre or something Baroque and then something contemporary. I think you could do something 'Very Gina' in that way.
Gina Morgano
I love that. We were talking about tuning into your inner voice and cultivating your voice. I think it's so important for everyone to know that everyone's voice is unique. Everyone's voice is a combination of all their life experience, of their unique physicality, of their unique ideas. Sometimes I think we box ourselves in too much. We think we have to be just one thing. Especially as an artist, we train in one specific genre, and that's what we do. But the idea of branching out and — as you said — the idea of combining them all is really exciting.
Matthew Carey
You're right. Our training tends to lead us towards one specific and narrowly defined genre or skill set. That makes us easier to describe. It makes it easier for us to say what we do. But I don't think that there are many people that we look up to as our heroes in the arts, who we would just describe in a bland, generic way. Would you describe Pavarotti as a singer? No, you wouldn't describe him as a classical singer, you would probably describe him as an opera singer. Beyond that, you would describe him as an operatic tenor. Beyond that, you knew who Pavarotti was. There was a certain physicality to him and I dare say that more people would recognize Pavarotti from his physicality than if you put them in a blind test listening to his voice and another voice. Interestingly, it's not always the things that we're taught to work on that make us interesting as an artist. I think that's the TL;DR version of that thought.
Gina Morgano
Oh, a million, million trillion percent. I'm thinking of two of my favourite singers and artists. I'm thinking of Audra McDonald and Whitney Houston. They're both incredible singers, but also incredible actors. Whitney Houston did film roles and Audra McDonald has done TV. These people who are at the height of their game, the height of their work, do so many different things. Using Audra, as an example: when I think of what I love about her, it's not what she learned at Juilliard. I mean, although she did learn how to sing at Juilliard, that's not what I love about her expression, the way that her artistry moves me and inspires me. There's something beyond that training.
Matthew Carey
I bet that she dreamed of going to Juilliard. We see that as a pinnacle of artistic training for some people. Yet, by definition of the funnel, and the way they audition people into that program, Audra must have been a phenomenal singer before she entered the program. How many of us could notice the layer of polish that maybe she found in the years that she was there? You talked about producing shows for charity or benefits. I know that service is a very fundamental part of who you are and what you do, Gina. I was surprised that it didn't come up specifically as one of your values, but I guess it ties into all of them. Was this idea of service and being there for other people — doing things for other people — were you born with that in your DNA? Or is that something that you've learned through experience?
Gina Morgano
Thank you for saying that and for bringing it up. I think it's a combination of both. I credit my family with teaching me thoughtfulness, caring for others, being empathetic and inclusive. My grandmother who is 99, is still the most thoughtful person I know. She's always wondering what can she bring to somebody? How can she help? So I think part of it was in me, but as far as using my art in service, I think that that came much later as an intentional thing. When I was younger, I was self-centred. I wanted to be the best singer that I could be, the best artist that I could be because I loved it because it brought me so much joy. There certainly was this element of knowing why I loved it, knowing how I felt as an audience member in a theatre and wanting to share that with other people. In terms of that the service aspect was there, but in terms of being able to use my voice to make tangible change in a person's life, tangible change in terms of raising money for organizations, tangible change in terms of how the stories that I choose to tell and the type of art that I choose to share can have a specific impact on people as opposed to just the general impact of brightening somebody's day by singing to them? That came much later.
Matthew Carey
I think there's a belief which is warranted at times, that as performers we can be self-focused and lean towards the narcissistic sometimes. Some of us might think that this idea of putting all this energy and time into helping others is a sacrifice. It means sacrificing things you want to do for yourself. Is that your experience, or has it been different?
Gina Morgano
No. As an artist, there is a lot of sacrifice in terms of self-care, in terms of lifestyle. Not that you should sacrifice yourself care, but if I have a show, I'm going to take care of my voice and maybe sacrifice going to that party the night before. That's just a silly little example but there are all sorts of sacrifices that artists make on the journey. However, I think that it comes from a place so much deeper than that, so it's a joy rather than a sacrifice. It's a gift. It's a privilege and a blessing to be able to do what we do — to be able to impact people's lives and to help them to see hope and possibility. That doesn't feel like a sacrifice, it just feels like a gift that I'm very grateful for.
Matthew Carey
I like that. You mentioned self-care and I know that is important to you. I wouldn't consider myself an expert in self-care and I wonder if you've got any thoughts or maybe any tips, suggestions, or insights for people like me. Maybe you have a favourite one or two self-care tips that you'd like to share?
Gina Morgano
I will say that the reason I'm so interested in it is that I'm not an expert either. It is a constant daily challenge to take care of myself, my body, and my instrument so that I can show up as my best in the world. It's not easy. Sometimes I think that the thought that it should be easy, puts a lot of guilt on ourselves. I have found it very, very helpful to have an anchor. For me that anchor is sleep. I might eat too much sugar during the day, but I will get my sleep. I also drink a lot of water. Hydration is really important. That's just in terms of physical self-care, but also mental, we think clearer. Not expecting yourself to get it all right every day. Have a few things that you can rely on and feel good about. Know that they help you and then learn and incorporate the other things as the seasons of your life change. Self-care is not the same every day. It's going to be different based on your circumstances that day, that season. It's about tuning in to what you need at that moment.
Matthew Carey
It's not the case for everybody, but a lot of the singers I know are quite aware of their instrument — their voice and the different parts of their body that are involved in producing their voice. While it can seem that sometimes singers can be a little bit overprotective of their voice, it strikes me that they've got more physical awareness of what's going on in their body — than I do for certain, and probably more than a lot of other people. So one benefit of being a singer and having that physical awareness is that I suppose you've got some early warning signs that when your voice feels a bit scratchy, or whatever. There's a sign that "Okay, something's not quite normal today. I wonder if there's something that I would be doing differently to help this?"
Gina Morgano
1,000,000% In my teaching, it's all about helping my students become more kinesthetically aware. To become more self-aware of their bodies of what they are feeling, what they are experiencing. Tapping into the nuance of parts of their body that we normally just don't give much thought to day-to-day. I think it's so true that as you become more aware, you also know if something is off. If it's starting to feel off-kilter. The truth is that most days something is going to be off. The day that you are going to feel 100% in your best voice ever is probably going to be a day that you don't have to sing! So there's always some dryness or some allergies, or you didn't get enough sleep that night or whatever, there's something. It's learning how to manage those things and having a toolbox to help you through and knowing what to do. Instead of, "Oh my goodness. My throat is dry, I can't possibly sing. What do I do besides drink water?" Having a toolbox: I could try this, this, this, this, and this. It's essential — particularly for singers, but I think for everybody — to learn what their body needs and how to care for themselves in a way that they can show up and give their best even if they're not feeling their best. Not saying that every day, you're going to, you know, give a Tony-winning performance, but being able to function.
Matthew Carey
You don't usually win a Tony for one single performance, you win a Tony for the season. So it's about how you shop for the season rather than for any single show.
Gina Morgano
Exactly. I love that.
Matthew Carey
There is a lot more stuff. I wish I could talk to you about, Gina. But let's start to tie it up now and maybe we can have part two of this conversation later. You had a really interesting post on your website recently that talked about creation and curation.
I wonder whether you could speak about the differences or the different uses for creation and curation?
Gina Morgano
Yes, thank you for asking that. We talked earlier about connecting the dots, and for me, that's what curation is. It is about taking things that already exist and connecting the dots to illuminate them in a new way. Creation, I think, is building something new. Oftentimes we put pressure on ourselves to have original ideas, to write something or have a new idea that other people haven't thought of before. And the truth is that nothing's new. Everything has existed in some way or another. So this idea of curation, I believe takes the pressure off. Let's take cabaret, for instance. I believe that's an example of curation. You're taking songs that have already been written, and you are threading them together through a particular lens or a particular theme, to create a new experience for the audience. Museum exhibits are curated. They are taking art from either one artist or a bunch of different artists and stringing them together to share a particular idea or a particular message. With all these examples of curation, they're sharing a point of view. That's what's new. What's original is the point of view that comes from you.
Matthew Carey
That point of view, is that analogous to finding your voice?
Gina Morgano
Absolutely. I love that you said that.
Matthew Carey
I like this idea of really digging into curation. As you were saying, a piece of art curated in different ways, says different things. If I take a Picasso and put it in a gallery that has works across the history of art, then that work by Picasso says one thing because you're seeing it in the context of a work from the 16th century and another work from the 21st century. But if I curate an exhibition purely of Picassos,
I'm then seeing it in the context of where it fits within his work, rather than within the greater context of art history. Curation and creation, are two different ideas and sometimes the idea of approaching your work through curation makes it easier. But creation is the curation of ideas, or taking different ideas and different influences and putting them together in a new way. I love the way you talk about curation. Sometimes I see examples of it that I'm not as fond of because they are just gathering. Sometimes when we think about curation, we just gather all the things we can find that go in that bucket, and say "Here are all the jazz songs." But I think that leaves too much for anybody to take in and it's really hard to see anything specific there. When we can be more specific about our curation and make it obvious through the work, or make it more obvious through some sort of supporting narration, we can help people see why these things work together from our point of view. They then have the opportunity to form their own views about it.
Gina Morgano
Yes, I love that. I'm thinking of different museum exhibits that I have seen. The ones that have impacted me the most are the ones that have given us a lens through which to see the work. If we just put the work out there without any context — as you said, gathering — yes, there's an opportunity for people to create their own lens to see it through but I think that leaves people a little lost. The idea of offering a point of view, of offering a lens through which to see their work, opens up dialogue and conversation.
Matthew Carey
Art galleries offer an easy way to think about this. Sometimes I'll go to an art gallery with a friend who says, "Oh, no, I don't want to go on the tour. I don't like the tours."
That's fine because an art gallery has a whole collection, room after room of incredible work to see. I don't know about you, but sometimes I get overwhelmed. I feel like I need to see everything, but I don't have the capacity to make the most of 1000 pieces of work in one day. What I've found on really good museum or gallery tours, is that somebody can curate maybe 12 paintings or pieces of art throughout the museum that they think we should see that day. They'll take a small group of us from place to place, and point out why they think this piece is interesting, or why it's important. How it fits in with some of the other things around them. They can connect the dots for us. Maybe something we saw in this piece by a Flemish artist has resonances later with a French artist from the impressionist period. I can digest and appreciate twelve pieces of art, and I can feel really good that I've understood something about what I've seen. Whereas sometimes I enjoy the experience of going to the gallery, but I feel like I saw a little bit of everything and I didn't understand much at all. That's just an example and also a little suggestion to try the gallery tour.
Gina Morgano
I love that. That also makes me think of the curation of your voice. I think there's a connection there between throwing spaghetti at the wall and being more intentional with what you choose to put out there, with what you choose to share of yourself. Have confidence, knowing that what you are choosing to share — you're choosing to share for a reason that matters.
Matthew Carey
Speaking of spaghetti, I think that's a good takeaway to noodle on. Gina for those people that want to learn more about what you do, where's the best place for them to start?
Gina Morgano
They can find me on my website ginamorgano.com. They can find me on The Practice Parlour podcast, it's on iTunes, YouTube and my Facebook page. I also have a Self Care for Singers Facebook group if anybody is a singer and interested in self-care. I look forward to connecting with everyone.
Matthew Carey
Wonderful. Gina, it's been a pleasure to speak with you today. Thank you so much for all the work you do for singers, other artists and people beyond. Thank you for showing up and sharing your voice today.
Gina Morgano
Thank you so much for having me, Matthew. It was a joy to speak with you.