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My guest on this episode is Gabe Anderson - songwriter, creative director, live show producer and author of gabethebassplayer.com
Seth Godin described Gabe’s writing as “the best blog about music and craft we know” and his posts are an essential daily read for anyone who is ready to have their eyes opened a bit more about creativity and the music business.
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Matthew Carey
Hi Gabe and Welcome to Studio time.
Gabe Anderson
Thank you, Matt. Thanks for having me.
Matthew Carey
I'm recording this from Adelaide in Australia. Where are you today?
Gabe Anderson
I'm in Nashville, Tennessee.
Matthew Carey
When did you move to Nashville?
Gabe Anderson
I moved to Nashville in fall of 2002. I went to a school called Belmont University. And I've been here ever since.
Matthew Carey
Did you go to school to study music?
Gabe Anderson
I studied music business, which is a Bachelor's in business (that's the degree) but we always called it music business because a lot of the elective credits and the business classes were catered toward the music business. So I wasn't actually studying music, like notes and key signatures and all that, it was music business, entertainment law, record company operations, all that kind of stuff.
Matthew Carey
Great. Tell me a little bit about the time before that, that made you think that you saw a place for yourself in music business.
Gabe Anderson
It's funny. I'm definitely 18 anymore. But I remember back when I was probably in middle school, 10, 11, 12 years old. I got the red and the blue discs, The Beatles double albums that they put out. Yeah, I think it was somewhere after seventh grade and hearing, Hey Jude for the first time. It was Hey Jude, Strawberry Fields and All My Loving from those records. That was the tipping point for me to "Okay, I want in on this."
Matthew Carey
Had you been playing instruments at all before that?
Gabe Anderson
I hadn't, the summer that I got those Beatles records. A friend of mine had an electric guitar. It was funny. We started a band. He had a guitar, I didn't have anything, but we started a band. Then I got a bass and then we found a drummer and started from there. So I picked up the bass really because we needed a bass player, drums were too expensive and he already had a guitar.
Matthew Carey
That's interesting. I read that you didn't necessarily think the bass was your first love when you were thinking about what instrument to play. But that story helps make sense.
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, bass is something that fits my personality more, but it wouldn't have been my choice back then. Because the bass is not cool. It still isn't very cool if you had to pick it, but it very much suits me and it suits the way that I approach making music. Certainly, when I was in a band all through my 20s it was the right place for me to land.
Matthew Carey
Let's dig into that a little bit more. What was your place in the band? I guess both as a bass player and as a band member?
Gabe Anderson
So the thing about being a bass player and playing the bass, is you're most noticeable when you're gone. When the bass isn't there. It's the whole foundation part of the rhythm section with the drums. But the bass is understated. It's not supposed to get the spotlight, but it's vital and it's essential and when it's gone, everybody really misses it. So making the music that fit me. Because that was also my role within the band, but not in the music sense. Getting stuff going on the business side, that has always suited me very well. I don't really care much for the credit, but I hope that if I wasn't in the room somebody would notice. That's very much a bass player thing. We don't get a lot of spotlight, but then when the bass drops out of the mix, everybody goes, where's the bass? We really wish we had that back.
Matthew Carey
Yeah. It's one of those things you take for granted until it disappears,
Gabe Anderson
Right. Right.
Matthew Carey
Were you studying the music business for yourself and for your band? Or did you see yourself as more the business side of that music business?
Gabe Anderson
So going back to getting into the Beatles and falling in love with music - I was doing music business because I knew I wasn't good enough to do the music program. The music program at the school I went to is pretty intense. And again, my approach to my instrument... I didn't need to be the best, I just needed to figure out what my voice was. There's a lot of bass players who are better than Paul McCartney, but he had a voice through the bass. So when I studied music business, it was still very much to be in a band and be with people. That was always my dream and I think it's a lot of people's dream. We get into music because we see it being played and we see the camaraderie and the gang-ness of being in a band. I'll tell you something about Nashville. It was the same when I first came to Nashville as it is today. When I was in college I was doing my own thing. I could play bass, play guitar, and keys and drums. So I was making my own songs and recording my own songs - playing everything. I moved into a house with a bunch of guys and we would all sit on the back deck at night, and whine and complain that "Nobody in Nashville wants to be in a band." We all say we want to be in a band, but nobody is actually willing to give up the spotlight and give up power and decision making to actually be in a band. Finally, after whining and complaining to each other for about a year, we looked at one another and just said, "Wait a second. I think we might be each other's band." That was right after I graduated from college. So I went through college, doing my own thing, saying that I wanted a band but I didn't know how to be with people and be functional in a group. Even though I said that's what I wanted. Then finally moving in with a bunch of other people who are doing their own thing, we finally all threw in together. It was great. It was really fun. But that's a big hurdle for people in Nashville. They want people to join their thing. But everybody's walking around saying that same thing. I want people to commit to my thing. And when everybody's singing that same tune, there's a lot less bands.
Matthew Carey
How do we transpose that idea into something that other musicians can think about. Musicians outside of Nashville as well?
Gabe Anderson
Something that I talk with artists about a lot is the long game of what artists and musicians do is having to have ownership in something. When you're in a band, and it's a true band, like U2 or Coldplay are called player good examples because they all have ownership in the name of the band, in the actual entity of it. They're all sharing songwriter credits, regardless of who actually wrote the song. So as they look at their life, they're building this thing that they have equity in. That pays dividends over a long period of time to where when you get to be 50, or 60 or 70 years old, you have ownership in the band. There's a lot of people in Nashville, who are just side musicians. They don't commit, they don't start a band. They don't commit to an artist and so they're freelancers. When they play, they get paid. When they don't play, they don't get paid. A really, really important thing for musicians who are freelancers, it sounds really simple, but having your investments, your mutual funds, your retirement set up, so you can have little bits of ownership in in mutual funds in the stock market. It's not a very cool or fun thing for musicians to talk about. But you don't want to be 65 years old hunting for the next gig because you need to eat.
Matthew Carey
That idea of building assets somewhere, whether it's within your music or within your band, or if that's not your thing, then finding somewhere else that you can be investing in assets and building something that's going to continue to support you after today's paycheck is spent.
Gabe Anderson
Exactly. You have to have ownership in something. If it's not music, then you need to find another way. That's that's a tough thing for a lot of people in this town. You go down to Broadway or wherever out on the road and you make your show pay and use it to pay bills and eat and pay rent and and it's easy for the thought to escape. Where it's like well, do I want to be hustling for gigs for the next 40 years? I do not want that. So I'm making sure that wherever I am, there's a short and a long game being played financially.
Matthew Carey
Yeah. All right. So jumping over to that idea of building assets. It seems to me like you're doing that in a few different places.
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, you're right. Is there any one in particular, you'd like to bring up?
Matthew Carey
The first two that jump out at me, are the songwriting, the publishing, and the blog.
Gabe Anderson
Right. Diversification Exactly. The songwriting side of things is something that when I was in my 20s, I was in a band called The Kicks. We put out three records pretty much on our own. We had a small team of people, but we didn't have a record label. We co-wrote all those songs and then the band broke up a few years ago and actually I took a lot of time off writing music. Just in the last year I've gotten back into it. Songs don't make money because I write them. Songs make money when they grow legs, and they find their way into revenue streams. Something that I've been really fortunate with lately is the TV and film world, getting songs placed on commercials or TV shows or anything like that. It's a really fun and different way to approach music. It's different than trying to write the next Abbey Road or the next artist album. The structure of TV and film music is just a little bit different. So when I'm in the room, that's what I'm thinking about and then making sure that after the song is done, it gets to people who can service it to TV and film. Actually, I've started servicing songs myself to where I'm going directly to music supervisors with not only songs that I've written, but other producers and artists that I'm working with, to bring their music. I'm actually doing the music pitching for TV and film along with writing it. So that's a great slice of the industry. And then the blog is something that I started four or five years ago, just wanting to plug in and say something to the music business every day. Something that just opens our eyes a little bit more. If any of your listeners want to find the blog, it's gabethebassplayer.com. And if you just click blog, you can check it out and sign up and the emails can come to you for free. But yeah, man, the blog in the last handful of years, that has been the foundation of everything else that I've done.
Matthew Carey
Talk about that some more. I want to come back to the music publishing as well. But talk to me about the blog. Who's the blog for?
Gabe Anderson
The blog is for musicians, artists, music business people who are interested in opening their eyes to what's really going on in the music business. Whether you're in the music business for two weeks or twenty years, it can be worth your time. It becomes worth your time when you see what's going on. So that's who the blog is for - the people who want to make their time in this business worthwhile. Whether they have a little bit of success or a lot of success, that if they get out of it, or when they get out of it, or when they retire they say, "Yeah, that was time well spent. Maybe we didn't accomplish everything we set out to or achieve the levels of success that we hoped for, but it was worth it." And this blog speaks to that. Let's make this time here worth it.
Matthew Carey
I think that's a really important idea to keep in mind as any sort of creative. We don't necessarily go into these businesses because they are the most secure, or the most guaranteed path to success, whatever success is. But I think if you can find a way to make your creative career field feel meaningful, or like it's worth your time, like you said, that's got to ultimately be the goal,
Gabe Anderson
Right. I think we just want to look back on what we did, and be happy with our effort, and know that we did something that if given the chance we would do again. If given the same information at the same time, we'd say, you know what, "It didn't turn out the way I thought it would, but we did exactly what we needed to do in the way we needed to do it at the time."
Matthew Carey
Yeah. So what has changed about the blog in the six years you've been running it, Gabe?
Gabe Anderson
Well, thank goodness, it's gotten a little shorter, because I know some of those early posts were a bit long. I started in 2014 with the first couple of posts, but then I think it was beginning of 2015 that I really hit it hard. There was a challenge that came through Seth Godin, and I think that was at the beginning of 2015. Being shorter with my words in the post, that's changed a lot. Other than that, it's been a process for me. Because I know I'm going to write every day it requires me to open my eyes, and then that allows me to write every day. So something that's changed is just having to see a little bit more, a little bit deeper. When I'm speaking with you right now, or artists earlier today it's as simple a question as "What's really going on here?" That's something that I asked myself a lot when I reflect on the day. I usually write my blog at night, so I'm reflecting on the day and conversations I've had. I've had to dig deeper into that to uncover a new way to say an old thing. I'm not afraid of repeating myself. And I think repeating ideas is really important, but just putting new little spins on things. I like that. That's something that during the blog over a long period of time has forced me to do.
Matthew Carey
That makes sense. I certainly noticed that the posts got a bit shorter as time went on. In terms of that, is that a conscious thing? Do you start with a longer post and then whittle it down or what have you just trained your brain to think about the thoughts in more precise ways?
Gabe Anderson
The look behind the curtain on this is - all throughout the day, I have a note in my phone, and when I think of the line of the post, like the main idea, I write it down. I usually don't have time to type out an entire post. I wish I did. A lot of times at the end of the day, when I'm going to write, I look back on my big list of notes that just isn't ever running list of ideas for me. So I pretty much have...I would say, if a reader is going on and looking at the blog, I usually have either the beginning line or the last line in some form. That's usually what came from my list of notes. Then I sit down and and flesh it out a bit, but I always remember Have you seen Ocean's 11?
Matthew Carey
Yes, I have.
Gabe Anderson
When Brad Pitt's character is talking to Matt Damon's character Matt Damon is like the new guy who's never really done undercover. Brad Pitt's rattling off a bunch of do's and don'ts to Matt Damon. He says "Be funny, but don't make him laugh" and "Don't use seven words when four will do." And that's always stuck with me. Old Brad Pitt in his silly passing line in Ocean's 11. That line goes through my head multiple times a week.
Matthew Carey
Now, let me connect the dots. It seems like when you're writing the blog post, you either have the first line, or the punch line when you start and then you have to find the rest of the post. It strikes me that you must be a Seinfeld fan. Tell me about your appreciation for Jerry Seinfeld, and let's maybe talk about how blogpost might be like a joke.
Gabe Anderson
Oh my gosh. First of all, no greater compliment have I ever received than my blog being compared to Seinfeld. My wife will be more proud of me when she hears you complimented it in that way. And I am. That just makes me so happy. Something that I've heard Jerry say is "If you have the ending, you'll always want to tell the joke." Therein lies a big part of how I approach the blog post. Not that I hit it every time, but I know that if I have the ending, the blog's done. I have to sit down and type out a few more sentences or paragraphs, but if I have the end, I've got the punch line. I've got it. Man. I've learned a lot from Jerry Seinfeld. I've never met him. Me and my wife. Sarah, saw him a few years ago here in Nashville and he was fantastic. But I've learned so much from him and how he approaches - because he's a very -He maps it out. He scripts it out. He plays with words. He's cutting syllables. He's speeding up. Slowing down. All that. And that attention to detail is something that I certainly aspire to in my writing.
Matthew Carey
And of course, he famously writes daily, which is another habit that you and he have in common. What else does Jerry Seinfeld have in common with you, Gabe?
Gabe Anderson
How do I say this and not throw my own self under the bus? The blog for me, in a healthy way, highlights my ability to analyze and see the little things. When that swings into not so great, that analyzation can turn into judgment and self righteousness. But the blog is a great outlet for the analyzation, which comes very natural to me, to have a healthy place to get out. Without knowing Jerry Seinfeld, I would say that's probably true for him. His comedy is the healthy, funny, positive, light hearted way for that annoyance of the world that he sees and feels and experiences. It's a great outlet for that, rather than just being a bitter old man all the time. Which I don't know if he is, but maybe he could be - I don't know.
Matthew Carey
I watched the latest Netflix special the other week and I think it's a really well crafted one hour set. I don't know if he's a genius, but he's certainly really an expert at what he does by now.
Gabe Anderson
It was so good.
Matthew Carey
It struck me that he's maybe lifted his slightly shouty voice to the next level. I went back and I happened to see an older episode of Seinfeld. I remember the voice has always been there, but it's like he's sort of shouting everything now. He reminds me a little bit of the cranky grandpa. He's a little bit frustrated by everything. But I think that there's an appeal in that because a lot of us, you and I both have that aspect of our own personalities. To see somebody actually say it, and say it in a way that is funny and celebrated - he just taps into that part of us that we wish we could do so successfully.
Gabe Anderson
Mm hmm. I picked up on that as well and I'm glad you brought it up. The show now, this standup now, is definitely different from years past and the TV show. It is elevated. I think a big part of that is that nobody who goes to see him or turns on the special is probably seeing him for the first time. So he can play in that liberty. It's probably too general to say it's a little bit of a caricature of himself like when Jimmy Fallon does Jerry. It's that heightened impression of an impression. But I really liked the special. He was more physical than I'd seen him be before. The voice was just stepped up. I liked it. I thought it was good.
Matthew Carey
If I can assume for a moment that Jerry Seinfeld is one of your heroes, who are some of the other heroes that you aspire to be a little bit more like?
Gabe Anderson
Seth Godin is one that comes to mind. The way that he uses words and anecdote is really really great. I look up to him a lot. There's a guy, the wisest man in Nashville, George Landolt. Man he would hate that I'm giving his name out on on a podcast. He's the wisest man in Nashville, who I've had the distinct pleasure of knowing for many years, and he's changed my life. Those three, Jerry, Seth and George are pretty big for me. I'm somebody who... I'll say it in a musical way. When people ask me what music I like, I'm not somebody who says, "Well, I like everything. Oh, it's all good. You know, I like all genres, yada, yada, yada." I don't. I don't like all music. I don't get into all the music. I have my favorites and I really dig into them and they are my close circle. So whether it's music, friends, heroes, mentors. It's not a closed circle, but a close circle of people.
Matthew Carey
That strikes me as it may be a theme for you because it takes me back to what you were talking about being in the band. Instead of putting your energies all over town with every artist that is there, why don't you get together a small group of people that you really want to focus your attention and your energies with and see what you can do? It sounds like you're similar with your heroes. Rather than try and take a little bit from everybody which is going to disperse your attention, you've got a couple of pillars that you go to, for wisdom and for inspiration.
Gabe Anderson
Something that I value is consistency and reliability. That's something that I look for, whether it's the three guys that I mentioned, or people who I work with. My wheels get turning and I start clicking at a faster speed when I recognize those things with the people I'm working with. If I know that there's commitment, and that you're reliable, and that you're going to come through with what you say that you're going to do, that ramps me up and I perform better, and I operate better. In my heroes and my mentors, if I'm going to be able to catch on and understand their consistency and their reliability, I have to give that to them in order to receive it. How could I ever know if Seth is consistent if I'm not consistently reading or listening to his stuff? And same thing goes for a lot of the close knit group of people that I work with. I have to commit to you because I have to see what you're made of. I have to see if you're reliable, if you're trustworthy, if you do what you say you're going to do. That's that upward ratchet that gets talked about. Those are the close circles that I spin in. Something deeper opens up in me when that reliability is there.
Matthew Carey
I think that must be something that you see when you're trying to share insight with artists as well in terms of the relationships that musicians or other artists are developing with their audience. You talked about Seth Godin's blog, and the responsibility he's taken to be consistent with publishing his blog - but also the consistency that you've decided to take in reading it. That becomes a partnership. An unspoken contract might not be the word but this unspoken contract that you don't need to say to each other. You're going to keep showing up but you kind of know it.
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, that's right. For me writing my blog every day gives something to the people in the music industry. If they're the type of person who wants to commit to reading a little something every day that opens their eyes a little bit more - well, here's something that can show up every day. I like that. I like systems and consistency. I like consuming in that way, and interacting in that way. The blog is something that, in turn, is for other people who value some of these same things that I do.
Matthew Carey
Seth talks about sharing an idea of drip by drip and that's what a daily blog is, especially when it's as concisely written as your as is. As a writer, do you show up in any other format? Have you ever thought about writing a book or longer articles?
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, I am working on a book right now. It was really lucky, Seth was helping me with a couple things on it a while back, which is really nice. It's a book I'm working on about live performance, putting on live shows. That's something that I've helped a lot of artists with as a creative director and live show producer. So working on a book right now as we speak, and I've done some longer article writing. You know, I pitched a bunch of stuff to bigger music blogs that you've probably heard of, and got a lot of rejections. And that's fine. They wanted some longer form stuff and that's not where my focus is. I kind of said, "This is what I do. It seems to connect with these type of people." But they were wanting 1200 words or 2000 words and that's just not my sweet spot right now. The book that I'm working on, obviously is much longer than a blog post, but section by section is how the the book is being built. And that's a space where the blog has really has helped me a lot. The blogs are short-ish and then the book, as it goes section by section, they're sort of glorified blog posts. But I mean, I'm sure people have asked you too. You're doing the podcast. Are you're going to do video, if you're going to do interviews in person, all that kind of stuff. I don't know, what do you think? Are you going to get into video world at all? Or what are your thoughts there?
Matthew Carey
Firstly, I think that I've got a long way to go. There's a lot of learning and improving I could do with just the podcast format before I try and make a mark in any of those other fields. And I think that there's something to just knowing yourself and knowing your voice, and having an idea of where and how you like to show up. I think that there is a very different experience between watching a video and listening to a podcast and I don't think that you could necessarily translate exactly what we're doing here into a YouTube video. People's attention, the attention people are willing to spend on something is different depending on the format. I first got into podcasts when I was driving a lot. I'd listen to the podcast in the car. Now I don't drive very much at all but I listen to most of my podcasts when I'm out walking, I don't often sit down at a desk and listen to a podcast, that's not the right area for me. Whereas when I sit down and watch a video, I don't do that generally, when I'm walking. I can't generally do that when I'm in the car. So I'm in a different place. And when I'm on the move, then the audio can be part of what I'm doing without having to be everything. But if I'm sitting down in front of a screen, that screen needs to capture my whole attention otherwise, I find myself drifting off to something else. So if I wanted to move into a video format, I would have to completely rethink it. That would be a whole different channel.
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, it is really different. The whole process that is really different.
Matthew Carey
I've been doing some more writing myself, it's a newsletter that I call The Infinite Creative. The thing about writing for me is that I can use it to share the thoughts that I'm thinking about in case they're helpful for somebody else. Once again, doing a podcast or writing a blog releases me from the different pressure that there would be if I had to do something that involved video. Not saying that that's not in my future, but it's not where my focus is right now.
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, that's interesting. I think you said "Sharing thoughts in case they connect with somebody." But I think we share the thoughts because we're willing to say they will connect with somebody and they will be helpful. In your podcast you've had great guests, done tons of episodes. We offer up what we offer up because it's valuable. Not in case it's valuable. Does that makes sense? And when we approach it that way, it has inherent value rather than value that's waiting for applause or boos.
Matthew Carey
Yeah. If I present it with its value, then I don't have to wait for somebody else to credit or not.
Gabe Anderson
Right? I wrote a post, gosh, this was four or five years ago. I said, "What would it take for you to think that you had a good show?" The ultimate way to know that you had a good show is if you were getting off stage, and Paul McCartney was sitting there in tears, because the show was just so good. That would be the ultimate reassurance that your show is good. But as soon as that happens, now you have a problem. Now you need Paul McCartney to show up at every single one of your shows. And what happens when he just gives you a pat on the back instead of crying? Or if he just gives you a fist bump instead of a pat on the back? We need to put on a show or make a podcast or make a blog post that's good enough to get the pat on the back, but that can't be how we determine its value.
Matthew Carey
Yeah, I like that. You said earlier on, that the time and the energy you've invested in the blog has become the bedrock of what you do. What are some of the outcomes or the results that have come from the blog for you that you weren't necessarily expecting?
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, there's been a bunch. With the blog, as you might guess, there's lots of artists, musicians, producers, who subscribe. At all different levels of success and places in their career. I have been emailed or called or messaged about basic strategy and goal planning stuff. I've helped with PR. I've helped with booking. I've helped with getting songwriters publishing deals. Getting artists in front of record labels. Helping artists put their show together, which is something that I really love. The blog has been the invitation for people. Even me being able to be a guest on your podcast here today, it's because of the blog. It's because five years ago, I decided "I'm gonna speak up once a day to this industry that I want to serve and that I'm a part of." In turn that has unlocked a lot of other artists and musicians to then get in touch with me and say, "Hey, this is where I'm at. I need this." I really need a publishing deal or I really need a drummer. It's time to get a record label on board what does that look like? Who do you know at Sony or who do you know at Warner? All that business-y stuff. All of us creatives, again, musician or not - sometimes we just need to talk with somebody, to complain with somebody, to just be the insecure artist. I've sat down at many coffee shops, with many artists, and just been ears to listen. And for my money, that's just as good as anything.
Matthew Carey
There's a lot of value in your blog, but I think finding a site like yours is great as an artist because it reminds you that the things that we're thinking about, the problems or the challenges we're struggling with, are not unique to us. They are something that every creative person is dealing with. You also go one step further. Rather than just complaining about things you wish were better, you do offer suggestions for solutions or reframe problems in a way that makes them feel like they're something we can perhaps deal with after all.
Gabe Anderson
Yeah, the solutions. It's interesting trying to come up with 'solutions', because if I could write that book I would be on an island, sipping a margarita right now. One of the foundational fixes to a lot of these problems and something that I have to remind myself of all the time, is that when the dust settles on the complaining, whether you're a big artist, a small artist, or somewhere in between - you don't have to do this. You signed up for the circus. If you don't want to sign up for the circus, you don't have to. That choice, to say I'm going to be an artist... Being an artist doesn't choose you. You're not born to be the next Kurt Cobain or Lady Gaga.
Matthew Carey
So you're not born that way?
Gabe Anderson
No, you choose it. You show up and you do the work and drip by drip by drip you get better and you become that. And then a lot of luck happens and then you become, you know, Bruno Mars, whoever. This was your choice. You don't have to do this. I was just talking with a producer friend of mine, Mike Miller, the other day. We were talking and then he texted me later. He said "I signed up for the circus." And when my eyes and when other artists' eyes open to that idea that we chose this - that unlocks so much problem solving. It doesn't seem like it would be a fix or like a 'how to do the next thing,' but the freedom of the choice unlocks brainpower and bandwidth to come up with the necessary solutions.
Matthew Carey
Yeah, that's something really generous I've read in your posts. You remind us that we don't have to be doing this. It's okay to walk away and move on to something else with no shame.
Gabe Anderson
When you have the choice, it actually becomes more important than if you say, "Oh, I was born to do this. Therefore I have to. Therefore it's really important." An example that I've given before might come off a little bit crass, but you could be helping cure cancer. We could get online, we could find an organization that needs help. And we could dive in tonight, right now if we wanted to. But we're not. We're doing music, or we're doing production, or we're doing podcasts, or we're doing music business stuff instead. Not because we have to. Not because somehow our destiny, we have to be doing this. We're choosing this. Could be curing cancer - but we're not. We're being an artist. So if we're going to wake up and make that choice every day, that's a really weighted, important choice. So we better make it good. Because the alternative is we could be helping and all these other ways. So if we're going to choose to be an artist, understand the alternatives, the really great alternatives that we're giving up, and therefore be a great artist. Pay attention and open your eyes. Make it count and make your time in the business worthwhile. Because you don't have to be here. There are people who are doing other great things that would gladly take your help. But when you make the choice to be here - and it is a choice - that unlocks the freedom for what we're doing here to be great.
Matthew Carey
Clearly you've been thinking and writing about creating great live shows. And I was wondering, Gabe, who is perhaps the ultimate artist you'd like to work with on a live show? Or the ultimate live show you'd like to work on with an artist?
Gabe Anderson
A year and a half ago. I went downtown in Nashville, and saw Bruno Mars on the 24 karat tour. And I am but a skinny white bass player and I danced for two hours. straight. It was awesome. If you go to my blog and just search Bruno, I did a handful of posts right after, as a response to that show. As I was watching his show, and reflecting on it afterwards, I was thinking, he gets it too. He gets it. I felt the same way (I didn't know I felt this way at the time) probably eight years ago. I saw U2 on the 360 Tour at the Vanderbilt stadium. Again, that was one of the things I didn't know at the time. But looking back at how it changed me... "Well, yeah, they they get it. They get it." Something that they understand and for a lead singer specifically - we could do a whole podcast episode just on this - but both of those acts, understand that the spotlight is on them the whole time. There's no break. There's no break from the spotlight. That last step on stage...and the spotlight turns on, and it's Bruno Mars or Bono up there. They accept the spotlight and they do something with it. The whole time. It's not like accepting the spotlight for the four minutes of the song and then take a little break, and then pick it up again and then take a little break. It's this continuous - and they're very different performers - but it's the same underlying principle. They've accepted the spotlight and said "Okay, I'm the guy tonight. And I know what to do with this."
Matthew Carey
Yeah. This is on a very, very different level. But my career was largely doing a lot of freelance playing for a while and I would accompany a lot of singers in small cabaret shows. Just the singer and me playing piano. One time I decided I wanted to find out what it was like to be the singer. So I put together this show where I was singing and playing the piano. It was just me solo for 50 or 60 minutes. It was so much harder than I had expected. The thing that reminded me of this is that idea that you just have to carry the energy the whole time. There's nobody you can pass the baton to and say, "Hey, it's your turn for 30 seconds." It's you all the time. Between the songs it's you that's got to carry the momentum from the end of one song into the beginning of another. That was something that I'd never fully appreciated being behind the piano because there was always somebody else that was wearing that responsibility until then.
Gabe Anderson
Yeah. Lead singers get way too much credit and not enough credit at all.
Matthew Carey
That's really interesting.
Gabe Anderson
It's very difficult and it's a lot of money. And there's some band components to that. The other people on stage. But the weight that the lead carries is really important, and it's really important to step into that, accept the spotlight, get comfortable with it and then know what to do with the comfort. When you're comfortable, more of who you are can then come out. That's typically what we do with comfort, whether it's in our own homes or on stage. More of us comes out when are comfortable.
Matthew Carey
Yes, you can take that idea and shift it to different scenarios. If you're the band member that's looking at the attention that the lead singer is getting, and feeling a little jealous or resentful of that, remember how much energy they're having to expend to get that attention. Maybe it's an invitation to you, not to take over, but to work out how you can bring more to the stage as well. Share in that, because that's helping the whole team. If you bring more energy, then it's making for a better show. You might get a little bit more attention and you're also taking a little bit of the pressure off of your other bandmates.
Gabe Anderson
Right. This is what I love about working with artists and bands and live shows like that really gets into the nuance of the show and of the personalities of the people and how the singer receives energy from the band. Me and the audience at a Foo Fighters show. I don't need the band. But Dave - Dave needs the band. I need Dave. I'm sitting out in the audience. I need Dave. But Dave needs the band. And there's a lot that goes into that. Obviously, personalities and the way that a singer can go to the well for energy the way they build it and the way they give it out. That's a big part of putting on a show. The way the band feeds energy. Yes, they're feeding energy to the crowd. But one of their jobs is making sure that the lead singer looks good. And that the lead singer is conveying the message of the show. Being a 'background' player to that is really, really important. I guess it's the difference between wanting to be the vital part or a vital part. In a show most of the time, we are all a vital part.
Matthew Carey
Yeah. And if you were tying that back to someone else we spoke about, that would tie in with Seth Gordon's Linchpin theory.
Gabe Anderson
Exactly, exactly. Seeing and understanding your own vital-ness to the show or to wherever you're at releases you from having to be the vital one.
Matthew Carey
Yeah. Let me ask you one more question before we wrap up. Tell me about the Hum Love playlist. Why do you share that?
Gabe Anderson
If you go to Spotify and just search Hum Love. actually. So right now it's 7.30pm my time on a Monday. And actually, when I get off with you, I'm going to put up the new one for this month. I do it monthly. I'm so glad you asked about this. There's a few things. The playlist is usually anywhere from nine to 11 songs long. One of the things that I play with is - My band The Kicks, we put out three records - so I only had three times where I got to put songs in order, find a flow for how it should go on a record and work those muscles and work that puzzle. So one of the really, really fun things - and this is why I spend the most time on when I make another playlist - is which tracks and which order they should go in. What's the flow? With a lot of artists, and I was the same way, an artist will put out an album (like a 10 song) and they'll go to put the track order together (which is really important), and they've never done it before. Or they've done it once or twice, ever. I encourage artists to do something like this a lot, because I've probably done seven or eight months, but... Man, I encourage any artists out there - every month or every week, or whatever you want to do - make a 10 song playlist. It could be any song, but just monkey with that. Play with "What it would sound like if it's the outro of this song and then into the intro of that song?" How does that feel? What are the keys? What's the tempo? What's the lyrical content or the vibe? I really love that. And then it gave me a really good excuse to find new music, I'd kind of gotten tired of listening to a lot of the same things. So it gave me an excuse to just start clicking around on Spotify. I knew if I had to make a playlist - and sometimes on the playlist, there's some like older tunes. There's been Elton John on there before and a couple of songs like that. But it's a lot of new fresh stuff. I knew if I had to make a playlist, well, I have to find songs. And it's fun. It's just fun to have new tunes.
Matthew Carey
That's one of the things we love as teenagers. Discovering a new song and being able to share it with your friends. Yes. And you've tapped into that. That's really cool.
Gabe Anderson
Something I need to mention. You said like in high school, passing around playlists or mixtapes or whatever. I was talking with a producer friend of mine, and we were talking about really good songs. The kind of song really you turn it on and your mind is blown the whole way through. He brought up something that I thought was so great, which was a song like that every part is just like, "How is the song so good?" It's both surprising, but of course it goes that way. The intro opens. I was like, "Oh my gosh. This sounds amazing." Then it dumps into the verse and it's a surprise. Then the pre chorus is a surprise. And it's like, "Oh my gosh, this is the most amazing thing I've ever heard." But then it's also like, "Well, of course it goes that way. That's the way it should go." I don't feel that way with every song I throw on my playlist. But there have been some where I get that music feeling again. The good music feeling like we've all had before. Like, "How is this so good?" And it's both surprising and "Of course, it goes that way." That's something that's been really fun with the playlist. Finding those real gems of man, every section of the song is just like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa!"
Matthew Carey
Well, you've introduced me to some great new artists and songs through the Hum Love playlist. So I really thank you for that. As we finish up, Gabe, as we're recording, we're perhaps on the back end of the pandemic, and I know that the United States is in some turmoil at the moment, looking at racial issues. I thought maybe we would just close out by me asking you, how can songs make a difference?
Gabe Anderson
Music has never needed spiritual words. Because music is inherently spiritual. That goes for the people making it in the room and the people listening to it and what it does to our hearts. Music has a funny way of bypassing the mind and hitting the heart. And whether it's re-listening to old songs, or hearing that new song that blows us away, all over again..that is the power of music. Music at its best gives no concern for the head. It moves straight into the soul. And that's why we sign up for the circus.
Matthew Carey
Yeah. Well, Gabe, thank you for signing up for the circus because your blog and the work you do is really valuable to me and to a lot of other artists. I've got a few friends that subscribe to the blog. It's always fun when we send each other messages saying, "Did you see what Gabe wrote today? What do you think?" That sparks quite a lot of conversation for us, it's our water cooler. So I really love that and thank you for opening up my eyes and my ears a little more. I look forward to continuing to read the blog and I hope we get a chance to speak again.
Gabe Anderson
Man, that is really special. Thank you for saying that. To any artists and music people who are listening, please feel free to hit the blog or drop me an email. I love - whether we get on the phone, FaceTime, if you're in Nashville face to face - and digging into what you're going through. Again, I do a lot of the show production, creative direction in that way but I just love...I love getting into it with artists. So if you're listening, let me know what you need and I'm ready to jump in.
Matthew Carey
Fantastic and I'll certainly put them in the show notes but it's...
Gabe Anderson
gabethebassplayer.com and feel free to drop me an email. It's gabe@gabethebassplayer.com I always get those and read them and I respond in a timely fashion.
Matthew Carey
Well, I'll leave you to go on upload the playlist and I look forward to having to listen!
Gabe Anderson
Thank you Matt. Thanks for doing this.